<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:georss='http://www.georss.org/georss' xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077</id><updated>2011-07-28T05:01:01.717-07:00</updated><category term='translating tips'/><category term='Cicero'/><category term='Ovid'/><category term='worked translation'/><category term='Translating into daft things into Latin'/><category term='Livy'/><category term='Silmarillion project'/><category term='Themed Vocab Lists'/><title type='text'>Bloggus Sum</title><subtitle type='html'>A Latin learning blog, record of my own progress and with vocab, excercises and ideas for others.</subtitle><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default?max-results=100'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/'/><link rel='hub' href='http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>15</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>100</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-2706968806314161582</id><published>2010-03-28T09:23:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2010-03-28T09:53:13.255-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Cicero'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='worked translation'/><title type='text'>Cicero: In Catiliniam 1.27 - worked translation</title><content type='html'>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now, enrolled fathers, that I might dispel and avert certain, almost justified, complaints from myself from the country - listen, I pray, closely to what I say and fix these things deeply in your hearts and minds. Indeed, if to me the country, which is to me far dearer than my life, if all Italy, the whole of the republic - thus asked:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Marcus Tullus - what are you doing? Then him, whom you know to be an enemy, whom you recognise as a future leader of war, whom you feel is expected as leader in the camp of the enemy, author of crime, first among conspirators, evoker of slavery and civil war - then he will you allow to leave, that it will seem he were not sent forth from the city away from you, but invited into the city? Do you not order him lead away in chains, snatched for death, slaughtered with the highest penalty? What thus delays you? Custom of ancestors? But often, even in private, in this republic they punished troublesome citizens by death. Or laws, which were proposed for the punishment of Roman citizens? But never in this city have those who desecrated the republic held the status of citizens. Or fear of future retribution? You give fine return indeed to the Roman People who raised you, a man known on your own merits, without recommendation of ancestors,&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; "so quickly through all grades of office to supreme command"&lt;/span&gt;, if on account of prejudice and fear of some other danger you neglect the safety of your citizens. But, if there is any fear of vengeance, courageous sternness ought to feear no hatred more vehemently than guilty inaction. Or, when war lays waste to Italy, storms the cities, burns roofs, then do you not think you will be destroyed by burning hatred?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Because I spent about four days juggling words and clauses (see previous post on translating Cicero), I actually get most of it right as soon as I put it on paper. I confess, I took a sneak peak &lt;a href="http://ibnotes.tripod.com/Subjects/Latin/"&gt;at this page &lt;/a&gt;to untangle the bits still  hurting my head, and one part I so thoroughly screwed up I had to quote  directly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Two words to learn&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;maiorum &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I took this to mean "majority" throughout - it actually referrs to ancestors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;supplicium&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Guessed correctly that this meant a request, a petition, a humble bowing down - but it comes to mean "punishment".&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Technical terms in this passage&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;conscriptus, i&lt;/span&gt; (m) - enrolled, elected i.e. the Senate. &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;patres conscripti&lt;/span&gt; is the formal way of addressing the Senate.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;civis, is &lt;/span&gt;(m and f) - citizen&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;civitas, atis&lt;/span&gt; (f) - condition of being a citizen or member of the community, state&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;coniuratio&lt;/span&gt;, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;onis&lt;/span&gt;, (f) - an oath, union, alliance - but in Cicero, always a conspiracy or conspirator.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ius, iuris&lt;/span&gt; (n) - duty, law, justice, legal rights. Here it means "rights as a citizen". My dictionary rather nicely describes it as "that which is binding", which aptly covers all its little meanings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;rogo, are, atus, atum&lt;/span&gt; - in first year, "to ask", from whence it turns into "beg, implore, solicit". In public life it can mean "ask opinion", or "propose for election, nominate", and when talking about laws, it means "propose, introduce or question concerning". It can also mean "invite", and partiularly talking of military men, "bind by oath"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;honorum gradus&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Should have got this one without help - doh. It means the same as &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;cursus honorum&lt;/span&gt;, the literal equivalent of our "career ladder" referring to the series of posts a Roman gent would hold on his way up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This page has a brief commentary:&lt;br /&gt;http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/SAL/texts/latin/classical/cicero/index.html&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-2706968806314161582?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/2706968806314161582/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/cicero-in-catiliniam-127-worked.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/2706968806314161582'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/2706968806314161582'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/cicero-in-catiliniam-127-worked.html' title='Cicero: In Catiliniam 1.27 - worked translation'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-308261608455814874</id><published>2010-03-25T06:09:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2010-03-28T09:23:32.755-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Cicero'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='translating tips'/><title type='text'>How to read Cicero</title><content type='html'>I've always dispised Cicero. I think the problem is the &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;way&lt;/span&gt; I have always read him, i.e. in Latin unseen exams where I only have 20 minutes to deciper his chunky tangles. I read some this morning and, aided I admit by copious pencil notes from a previous owner, found myself really getting into it. I therefore offer you tips I have gleaned on the best way to make sense of and (dare I say it?) enjoy your Cicero time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Having said all this, I still wish they wouldn't set Cicero in exams. They do it because it stretches your Latin to the limit, both in your understanding of basic constructions and technical, unusual vocabulary - but it took me several days to fully make sense of this speech, and I will &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;never&lt;/span&gt; be able to read it under exam conditions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Read it out loud&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And, if you can, perform it. Before you try and understand what the words mean, try and grasp the swoops and lines of his argument. As you read, emphasise question words (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;nonne, num, an, quid&lt;/span&gt;), connectives (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ut&lt;/span&gt;,&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; et, atque&lt;/span&gt;), personal pronouns (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;tu, ego&lt;/span&gt;) and in particular, words he uses to build his case: &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;si&lt;/span&gt;, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;aut, non&lt;/span&gt;. Once you have done this, you will find relative clauses, asides and subclauses popping out at you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you are self-conscious or in an exam, imagine someone reading it to you - I always find it helpful to imagine my Latin teacher, but try a favourite actor (someone with gravitas, like Brian Blessed...)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Circles and boxes&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Like all Latin, your aim is to find a subject, object and main verb.  You've just got to look harder because of his rhetorical style. Try not  to resent it: Martin Luther King would have got nowhere if he boiled  the "I have a dream" speech down to "racism is bad. Let's not do that.  Let's be friends".&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So start identifying things which definitely not S, O or V - and bracket off chunks which seem to belong together, like &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;in hac re publica&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3. &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Punctuation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Romans basically had no punctuation, and when roused to literary fury, write in uber-long sentences known as "periods". Because of this, the punctuation is built into the language, into the way clauses are structured and interelated. Grab a highlighter, and highlight all the words you emphasised before. Then start bracketing off relative clauses and conditional clauses. Try and see where he is balancing with words. For example, look at this mess:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Quid tandem te impedit?&lt;/span&gt; mos&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;ne&lt;/span&gt; maiorum? &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;At&lt;/span&gt; persaepe etiam privati in hac re publica perniciosos cives morte multarunt. &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;An&lt;/span&gt; leges, quae de civium Romanorum supplicio rogatae sunt? &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;At&lt;/span&gt; numquam in hac urbe, qui a re publica defecerunt, civium iura tenuerunt. &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;An&lt;/span&gt; invidiam posteritatis times?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Cicero begins with a general question: "OK, mate, so what is preventing you?" He then shoots down all possible reasons for delay with a question-answer structure:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Quid tandem te impedit?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;mos&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;ne&lt;/span&gt; maiorum? &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;At&lt;/span&gt; persaepe etiam privati in hac re publica perniciosos cives morte multarunt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;An&lt;/span&gt; leges, quae de civium Romanorum supplicio rogatae sunt? &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;At&lt;/span&gt; numquam in hac urbe, qui a re publica defecerunt, civium iura tenuerunt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;An&lt;/span&gt; invidiam posteritatis times? &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;Even though I don't know what half those words mean yet, I can grasp the rhythm of his argument and can tell that - whatever it is - he is getting angry about something.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4. &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Before you start writing&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Make sure every sentence or clause, you know exactly what the subject, object and verb is. It does bear repeating.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These few ideas occured to me this morning as really helping. Please add your own tips in the comments. And of course, they're not just handy for Cicero - he just writes in such a way that you have to pay more attention.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-308261608455814874?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/308261608455814874/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/how-to-read-cicero.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/308261608455814874'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/308261608455814874'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/how-to-read-cicero.html' title='How to read Cicero'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-1492280147216587671</id><published>2010-03-20T09:29:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T09:34:10.875-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Translating into daft things into Latin'/><title type='text'>Translating: in case of emergency</title><content type='html'>For Romans using the London Underground, here is the default warning sign translated into Latin:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;DE USU CLAMORIS&lt;br /&gt;Increpe ad raedarium trahendo ansam qui statim aut pilentum instabit si ullam partem in loci erit, aut ad proximum locum continuabit ut facilius auxilium dari posset. Poena dabit mali usu.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Well, what else do you do when you've nothing else translateable?&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-1492280147216587671?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/1492280147216587671/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/translating-in-case-of-emergency.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/1492280147216587671'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/1492280147216587671'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/translating-in-case-of-emergency.html' title='Translating: in case of emergency'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-6001511136103643655</id><published>2010-03-20T07:37:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T09:50:22.914-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Ovid'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='worked translation'/><title type='text'>Fasti II: Arion: worked translation</title><content type='html'>Glug glug, good morning all. See what you can make of this:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;quod mare non novit, quae nescit Ariona tellus?&lt;br /&gt;  carmine currentes ille tenebat aquas.&lt;br /&gt;saepe sequens agnam lupus est a voce retentus,&lt;br /&gt;  saepe avidum fugiens restitit agna lupum;&lt;br /&gt;saepe canes leporesque umbra iacuere sub una,&lt;br /&gt;  et stetit in saxo proxima cerva leae,&lt;br /&gt;et sine lite loquax cum Palladis alite cornix&lt;br /&gt;  sedit, et accipitri iuncta columba fuit.&lt;br /&gt;Cynthia saepe tuis fertur, vocalis Arion,&lt;br /&gt;  tamquam fraternis obstipuisse modis.&lt;br /&gt;nomen Arionium Siculas impleverat urbes&lt;br /&gt;  captaque erat lyricis Ausonis ora sonis;&lt;br /&gt;inde domum repetens puppem conscendit Arion,&lt;br /&gt;  atque ita quaesitas arte ferebat opes.&lt;br /&gt;forsitan, infelix, ventos undasque timebas:&lt;br /&gt;  at tibi nave tua tutius aequor erat.&lt;br /&gt;namque gubernator destricto constitit ense&lt;br /&gt;  ceteraque armata conscia turba manu. &lt;/blockquote&gt;The challenge set by my prof was to identify the tenses of the verbs in  the passage; something I sorely needed given how lazy I normally am. My answers are here:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;table style="border-color: rgb(136, 136, 136); border-width: 1px; border-collapse: collapse;" border="1" bordercolor="#888888" cellspacing="0"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 29px;"&gt;What  land did not know, what sea did not know Arion?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 29px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;novit&lt;/i&gt;: perfect &lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"&gt;(for present sense)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;nescit&lt;/i&gt;:  perfect &lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"&gt;(incorrect: present)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;He  would hold the flowing waters with his song. &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;tenebat&lt;/i&gt;: imperfect - repeated action.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;Often the wolf following a lamb was  held by his voice;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;retentus  est&lt;/i&gt;: perfect passive&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;sequens&lt;/i&gt;: present participle&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;Often the lamb fleeing the greedy  wolf halted;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;restitit:  &lt;/i&gt;perfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;fugiens&lt;/i&gt;: present participle&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;Often dogs and hares lay down beneath common shades&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;iacuere&lt;/i&gt;:  poetic contraction from &lt;i&gt;iacueverunt&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;And the deer stood in the rocks near  the lioness&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;stetit&lt;/i&gt;:  perfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;and  without strife the chattering crow sat with Pallas' bird,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;sedit&lt;/i&gt;: perfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;and the dove was joined by the  hawk.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;iuncta fuit&lt;/i&gt;:  perfect passive&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;Cynthia often was transported by your music, singer Arion&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;fertur&lt;/i&gt;: perfect &lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"&gt;(incorect: present)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;As if she were halted by her  brother's.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;obstipuisse&lt;/i&gt;: perfect&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;The  name of Arion had filled Sicilian cities&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;implereverat&lt;/i&gt;: pluperfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;and he captivated the Italian shore  with the sound of his lyre;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;capta erat&lt;/i&gt;: &lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);"&gt;plu&lt;/span&gt;perfect passive&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;whence returning home Arion boarded a  ship&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;repetens: &lt;/i&gt;present&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;conscendit&lt;/i&gt;:  perfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;and  thus was carrying the wealth earnt by his art.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;ferebat: &lt;/i&gt;imperfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;Perhaps, unhappy one, you had feared  the winds and waves:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;timebas:&lt;/i&gt;  imperfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;but  the ocean was safer for you than your ship&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;erat&lt;/i&gt;: imperfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;For the steersman stood with his  sword unsheathed&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;constitit&lt;/i&gt;:  perfect&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;destricto&lt;/i&gt;: perfect participle&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="width: 405px; height: 17px;"&gt;And the rest of the conspiritorial  band with arms in their hands&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style="width: 288px; height: 17px;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And an easy commentary I made as I went.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line 5&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Ariona&lt;/i&gt;  is the accusative of &lt;i&gt;Arion&lt;/i&gt;. It looks odd because &lt;i&gt;Arion&lt;/i&gt; is  a Greek name being used in Latin poetry, and thus has special rules.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Tellus &lt;/span&gt;is a very lofty word for "land", and is frequently used in comparison to sea.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;Far more rhetorical than what we could achieve in Latin, with the two interrogatives and two verbs to say the same thing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line  6&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Note the vivid position of &lt;i&gt;ille&lt;/i&gt;, surrounded by all the  other words.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Line 7&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anaphora with the repeated &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;saepe&lt;/span&gt;, linking to the &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;saepe&lt;/span&gt; in line 13. Latin doesn't have a lot of punctuation, but the punctuation is built into it - with words like &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;saepe&lt;/span&gt; here shaping a "paragraph" of sorts. &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Saepe&lt;/span&gt; would not be needed with an imperfect verb, as the imperfect implies it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line 9&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The second animal here is &lt;i&gt;lepus,  oris:&lt;/i&gt; hare. NOT, as I originally thought, leopard...in class my prof here added "not rabbits, please. Hares. Get a sense of the tone."&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;iacuere&lt;/i&gt;  is a poetic shortened version of &lt;i&gt;iacuverunt&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line 11&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;ales,  alitis&lt;/i&gt; is literally "winged", and is used poetically to mean  "bird". The bird of Pallas Athene is, of course, an owl. I particularly  like the use of &lt;i&gt;lite...alite&lt;/i&gt;. Though the two words are not  connected - &lt;i&gt;lis, litis&lt;/i&gt; means strife - &lt;i&gt;alite&lt;/i&gt; sounds as if  it should be its negative regardless.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line 12&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Horrible  line if you don't know that &lt;i&gt;accipiter, tris &lt;/i&gt;is a hawk - at which  point it becomes easy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line 13&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Cynthia&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i&gt; &lt;/i&gt; refers to Diana. I confess this line still confuses me - &lt;i&gt;fertur&lt;/i&gt;  seems to be present, which seems bizzare because everything else so far  has been in the past. Perhaps it is meant to be especially vivid:  "Cynthia is often transported by you, Arion"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;fertur&lt;/span&gt; is a present verb, but it's treated as past because &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;obstipuisse&lt;/span&gt; is a perfect. So it does the verbing for both of them. Note that Ovid introduces a note of doubt for what the Gods have done, but not the incredible behaviour of animals.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;modis &lt;/span&gt;is used with both &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;tuis&lt;/span&gt; and &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;fratris&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line 14&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another  line which caused me a headache. The brother referred to is Apollo.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;tamquam&lt;/i&gt;  - "as if" - introduces a comparative clause, but these are followed by  proper conjugated verblike-verbs not by infinitives; furthermore, a  comparative clause is only in the indicative if the comparison is a real  one. In unreal comparisons such as this, the verb should be  subjunctive. So what is going on with &lt;i&gt;obstipuisse&lt;/i&gt;?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One  solution is that it should be imperfect subjunctive &lt;i&gt;obstipuisset&lt;/i&gt;  and my text is wrong. But that seems rather an extreme solution.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Line&lt;/b&gt;  &lt;b&gt;15&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Siculas&lt;/i&gt;: Sicilian&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My prof notes that a shift to the pluperfect is often used to indicate a change in what's going on.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line 16&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Go and  find the subject first before plunging in. &lt;i&gt;Ausonis, idos&lt;/i&gt; means  Ausonian a.k.a. Italian&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ora&lt;/span&gt;'s root meaning is "edge", and thus "shore"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Line 17&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Puppis&lt;/span&gt; is the rear of a ship, and here just means ship. The front of a ship is &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;prora&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Line 20&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;nave tua&lt;/i&gt; is in  the ablative, because it is part of a comparative after &lt;i&gt;tutius&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Headaches&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;Line  14. Is my text wrong?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-6001511136103643655?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/6001511136103643655/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/fasti-ii-arion-worked-translation.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/6001511136103643655'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/6001511136103643655'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/fasti-ii-arion-worked-translation.html' title='Fasti II: Arion: worked translation'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-6683194964996219134</id><published>2010-03-20T04:41:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T09:25:57.865-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Livy'/><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='worked translation'/><title type='text'>Livy 22.6: worked translation</title><content type='html'>&lt;p&gt;And it's strike one for the revolution! This post contains:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;ul&gt; &lt;li&gt;My three translation attempts, first unseen, then with a dictionary, then finally with another translation  &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;A vocab list of the trickier words  &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;A challenge: identify the form of verbs and comment on what the forms add to the passage.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a name="6"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Tres ferme horas pugnatum est et ubique atrociter; circa consulem tamen acrior infestiorque pugna est. Eum et robora uirorum sequebantur et ipse, quacumque in parte premi ac laborare senserat suos, impigre ferebat opem, insignemque armis et hostes summa ui petebant et tuebantur ciues, donec Insuber eques—Ducario nomen erat—facie quoque noscitans consulem, "En" inquit "hic est" popularibus suis, "qui legiones nostras cecidit agrosque et urbem est depopulatus; iam ego hanc uictimam manibus peremptorum foede ciuium dabo". Subditisque calcaribus equo per confertissimam hostium turbam impetum facit obtruncatoque prius armigero, qui se infesto uenienti obuiam obiecerat, consulem lancea transfixit; spoliare cupientem triarii obiectis scutis arcuere. Magnae partis fuga inde primum coepit; et iam nec lacus nec montes pauori obstabant; per omnia arta praeruptaque uelut caeci euadunt, armaque et uiri super alium alii praecipitantur. &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0); text-decoration: underline;"&gt;Translation: pass 1&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The fighting was terrible everywhere for about three hours; however the battle was fiercest and thickest around the consul. The citizens had followed him and his toughest men, and he himself had shamelessly taken the fight to whichever part he thought his troops were pressed and struggling, and the citizens had sought and killed the most outstanding soldiers and enemies with most strength; until an Insuban knight - his name was Ducarius - recognising the consul also by his face said to his companions "Look! Here is the man who felled our legions and laid waste to our fields and city. Now I will give this punishment with my hands for the crime of a snatched state."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After ?????????????? [after some group had stood down?], he made an attack through the extremely packed crowd of the enemy from his horse, and having first slaughtered the bodyguard who threw himself in the way of the angry approacher, skewered the consul with his lance; the surrounding men, shields thrown aside, prostrated themselves in front of those desiring to slaughter them. First from here, flight of the most part began; and now neither lake nor mountain stood in the way of fear; all men fled headfirst through all the broken devices, and weapons and over other men, as if they could escape slaughter.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0); text-decoration: underline;"&gt;Tricky Words&lt;/span&gt; - what I've figured out, then what the dictionary says.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;impigre&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;del&gt;Third declention noun, ablative&lt;/del&gt; Adverb: actively, quickly, keenly. It is also an adjective which means the same thing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;infestior&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;obviously not a good word - unsafe, dangerous&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;victimam&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Accusative, feminine, maybe from victima. Guess it has something to do with sacrifice? Correct: &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;victima, ae&lt;/span&gt; - sacrifice victim.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;foede&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;I recognise this word from Virgil. It's a bad word - you do not want to be &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;foedus&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; - &lt;/span&gt;and I'm fairly sure it's an ablative, 3rd declension noun. Almost correct - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;foedus&lt;/span&gt; is an adjective meaning all things foul and loathesome, but the word here is the adverb &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;foede - &lt;/span&gt;horribly, cruelly. Also, I think the word in Virgil is the homonym &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;foedus, eris&lt;/span&gt; (n) - treaty, alliance.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;subditis&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The verb bit of an ablative absolute - a perfect participle, perhaps from &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;subducto&lt;/span&gt; - drag under? Nope - it's from &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;subdo, dere, didi, ditus&lt;/span&gt;: an irritating word which somehow encompasses "put under", "apply", "yield", "supply", "furnish", "substitute" and "counterfeit". I can see how all those words can come from &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;subdo&lt;/span&gt;, but it's still a bastard collection to remember. What on earth can it mean in this context?!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;calcaribus&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No idea, except that it's a plural ablative, perhaps from &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;calcax&lt;/span&gt; or something? Almost: &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;calcar, aris&lt;/span&gt; (n) - spur, but also stimulus. I'm sure in an exam they would have given this to us. It also makes sense of &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;subditis&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;armigero&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;ablative of something like a bodyguard - the dictionary says &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;armiger, eri&lt;/span&gt; (m) is a "shield-bearer"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;confertissimam&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;confertus&lt;/span&gt;; it also has another bally adverb, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;confertim&lt;/span&gt;, meaning closely or compact.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;triarii&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A technical term, and as I suspected, in the nom plural: the third rank of soldiers in battle, i.e. the reserve.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;insuber&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Not in the dictionary, which at least confirms that my suspicion that it's a proper noun of sorts.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;arcuere&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"to shut up, to enclose, avert, restrain, hinder, protect". I've no idea if this is etymologically close to the word &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;arx, arcis&lt;/span&gt;, but it might help to remember that this verb means to "tower" someone, with all the associations that a tower has. My dictionary claims they both come from the Greek word "arego", and the word "arcanus" (secret) is also related.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;spoliare&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;to strip, unclothe - to rob, plunder, despoil&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;tuebantur&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I thought this was kill - but the dictionary informs me that &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;tueor, tutus, eri&lt;/span&gt; actually means "look at", "guard", "care for", "support", "protect" e.t.c.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;peremptorum&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Genitive plural of something. PPP of &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;perimo&lt;/span&gt;, kill, slay, exterminate.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0); text-decoration: underline;"&gt;Translation: pass 2&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There was fighting for three hours, and everywhere fiercely; however, around the consul the fighting was more bitter and violent. The citizens had followed him and his toughest men, and he himself keenly directing the effort to whichever part he felt his men were pressed and toiling, [while] the citizens had sought and rounded up the most outstanding soldiers and enemies with most strength; until an Insuban knight - Ducarius was his name - recognising the consul also by his face said to his comrades, "look, here is the man who felled our legions and laid waste to our fields and city; now I will perform this sacrifice, with the hands of citizens cruelly annihilated!!!"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Digging in his spurs, he made attack through the tightest band of enemies on his horse, first cutting down the shield-bearer who had thrown himself in the way of the enraged oncomer, skewered the consul with his lance; the reserves restrained those who had thrown away their shields and wished to plunder him. From there first began the flight of the most part; and now neither lake nor mountain would stand in the way of fear; all ran headfirst, through all abandoned devices, weapons and over other men, as if they could evade slaughter.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0); text-decoration: underline;"&gt;Uncertainties&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ul&gt; &lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;pugnatum est &lt;/span&gt;and &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;pugna est&lt;/span&gt;: impersonal verbs, apparently in the present. Does this make any difference to their sense?  &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;What is that &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;quoque &lt;/span&gt;doing?  &lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;I still dislike the line about the reserves.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0); text-decoration: underline;"&gt;After looking up an official translation&lt;/span&gt;: &lt;a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10907/10907-h/10907-h.htm#d6"&gt;Project Gutenburg here&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Serious FAIL in paragraph one:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a id="d6"&gt;Both the strongest of the troops, and himself too, promptly brought assistance wherever he perceived his men hard pressed and distressed. But, distinguished by his armour, the enemy attacked him with the utmost vigour, while his countrymen defended him&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;a id="d6"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;I seriously misconstrued &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;sequebantur &lt;/span&gt;somehow. The second half makes sense, from the period. But what of the first half? I looked up &lt;a href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/From_the_Founding_of_the_City/Book_22#6"&gt;the Wikipedia translation&lt;/a&gt; for a second opinion:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He was followed by the pick of his army, and wherever he saw his men hard pressed and in difficulties he at once went to their help. Distinguished by his armour he was the object of the enemy's fiercest attacks, which his comrades did their utmost to repel[...] &lt;/blockquote&gt;Now that actually translates &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;sequebantur&lt;/span&gt; at least, but I still don't understand: isn't &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;sequebantur &lt;/span&gt;deponant? Why is &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;eum&lt;/span&gt; accusative? The best sense I can make is "the strongest men followed him".&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a id="d6"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a id="d6"&gt;Now will I offer this victim to the shades of my countrymen, miserably slain&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Ouch. You didn't just see me mistake &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;manes, ium&lt;/span&gt; - "dead spirits" - for &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;manus, us&lt;/span&gt; - "hand". I also didn't quite get &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;objecto&lt;/span&gt; correct:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a id="d6"&gt;first slaying his armour-bearer, who had &lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;opposed&lt;/span&gt; himself to his attack as he approached, ran the consul through with his lance; the triarii, &lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;opposing&lt;/span&gt; their shields, kept him off when seeking to despoil him. &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;a id="d6"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;The mistake didn't crucially change the meaning of the first word, but it did the second. I still don't know what this actually &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;means &lt;/span&gt;however. Wikipedia gives:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;but the triarii protected the body with their shields and prevented him from despoiling it&lt;/blockquote&gt;However, I am also far more literal than my fellow translator:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a id="d6"&gt;Then first the flight of a great number began; and now neither the lake nor the mountains obstructed their hurried retreat; they run through all places, confined and precipitous, as though they were blind; and arms and men are tumbled one upon another&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;a id="d6"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;pavori&lt;/span&gt; is from &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;pavor, oris&lt;/span&gt; - "fear", not "retreat", though the sense is the same. My understanding of the last paragraph was scuppered by bad vocab:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;cacus&lt;/span&gt; - "blind"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;artus- &lt;/span&gt;close, narrow&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;praeruptua - &lt;/span&gt;abrupt, ragged&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0); text-decoration: underline;"&gt;Final Translation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There was fighting for three hours, and everywhere fiercely; however, around the consul the fighting was more bitter and violent. The toughest men followed him, and he himself keenly directed the effort to whichever part he felt his men were pressed and toiling; enemies attacked him with the most force, outstanding in his armor, while his countrimen guarded him; until an Insuban knight - Ducarius was his name - recognising the consul also by his face said to his comrades, "look, here is the man who felled our legions and laid waste to our fields and city; now I will perform this sacrifice, to the shades of citizens cruelly annihilated!!!"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Digging in his spurs, he made attack through the tightest band of enemies on his horse, first cutting down the shield-bearer who had thrown himself in the way of the enraged oncomer, skewered the consul with his lance; the reserves restrained those who wished to despoil him with opposing shields. From there first began the flight of the most part; and now neither lake nor mountain would stand in the way of fear; all ran as if blind through small and broken routes, all fleeing headfirst over other arms and men.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0); text-decoration: underline;"&gt;Lesson of the day&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;ul&gt; &lt;li&gt;&lt;span&gt;Look-ye up some adverbs. They're one of those little unimportant things passed over in Latin classes, precicely because they have no function beyond decoration, and are infrequently used (compared to, y'know, verbs). But see how often they tripped me up!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;PART TWO: verb identification&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-6683194964996219134?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/6683194964996219134/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/livy-226-translation-tips.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/6683194964996219134'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/6683194964996219134'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2010/03/livy-226-translation-tips.html' title='Livy 22.6: worked translation'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-4736254691380760967</id><published>2009-12-02T06:47:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:43:03.579-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Translating into daft things into Latin'/><title type='text'>Daft challenge: song titles</title><content type='html'>The challenge: Translate the title of your favourite album, and all the track names, into Latin.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1.  use a dictionary only when you get stuck&lt;br /&gt;2. post in the comments, including how long it took you and any new words you've learnt&lt;br /&gt;3. Try and guess the identity of the albums above you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;Bellator Apud Finem Temporis&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I. Impetusque Vis&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt; (as this is a legal term, I wonder if there is a better Roman equivalent?)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;II. Aurea Inanitas&lt;br /&gt;III. Cum Magus Cornuam Suam Canebat&lt;br /&gt;IV. Opus-Lokus &lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;(OK, so no real translation)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;V. Vir Demens&lt;br /&gt;VI. Magnus&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt; (Again, nonsense so no real translation)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;VII. Stans Apud Finem&lt;br /&gt;VIII. Intortus Universus&lt;br /&gt;IX. Bellatores&lt;br /&gt;X. Moriens Mares&lt;br /&gt;XI. Reges Celaritatis&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-4736254691380760967?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/4736254691380760967/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/12/wednesday-latin-challenge-carmines.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/4736254691380760967'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/4736254691380760967'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/12/wednesday-latin-challenge-carmines.html' title='Daft challenge: song titles'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-692845310955032453</id><published>2009-12-02T06:09:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-12-02T06:45:08.535-08:00</updated><title type='text'>LINKS</title><content type='html'>&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Online&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_prima"&gt;Vicipaedia - &lt;/a&gt; a Latin wikipedia&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.yleradio1.fi/nuntii/"&gt;Nuntii Latini &lt;/a&gt;- the News in Latin, complete with podcast&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://schola.ning.com/"&gt;Schola &lt;/a&gt;- Myspacey social network thing entirely in the lingua latina (&lt;a href="http://schola.ning.com/profile/Emily"&gt;be my friend)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Authors&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://etext.virginia.edu/latin/ovid/"&gt;The Ovid collection&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.negenborn.net/catullus/"&gt;Catallus online&lt;/a&gt; - metres, different, translations, line by line comparisons, biographies, a forum. First stop for Catallus.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Original Latin online&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/"&gt;The Latin Library&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Project Libellus&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Translations online&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.poetryintranslation.com/"&gt;Poetry In Translation&lt;/a&gt; - Latin, Greek and many other languages&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Links to Links&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/classics.html#texts"&gt;The Latin library &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://blogs.dalton.org/rome/literary-resources/"&gt;Literary resources at The Rome Project&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.users.qwest.net/%7Engill1/latin1.html"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More nice links, focused towards learning&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://eleaston.com/latin.html"&gt;Very good link list, excellent for learning resources&lt;/a&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-692845310955032453?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/692845310955032453/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/12/links.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/692845310955032453'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/692845310955032453'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/12/links.html' title='LINKS'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-2627387818658468849</id><published>2009-12-02T04:51:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-12-02T06:08:12.319-08:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Themed Vocab Lists'/><title type='text'>Paraklausithyron</title><content type='html'>One thing I've long saught for on the web is themed Latin vocab lists, so I'm filling the gap myself.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Paraklausithyron is the song sung by a poet while rattling at the door of his mistress' house and begging to be let in, and evolved into a mini-genre of Latin Love poetry. He has usually just left a party, tends to be tipsy and is never successful. Typical features include:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;addresses to mistress, doorkeeper and door - pleas, threats, prayers, bargaining e.t.c.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;personification of the door itself&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Description of the door, the building, the time of night, and especially...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;...complaints about the weather. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;A good introduction is here:&lt;br /&gt;http://www.jstor.org/stable/289473?seq=1&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A lot of the vocab is typical love elegy stuff - burning, pallor, Amor - but screaming at the door of your beloved does require some specialised vocabulary, the best of which is listed below:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Some paraklausithyrons to get you started:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Ovid &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Amores&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt; 1.6 -&lt;/span&gt; the poet bargains with the door and doorkeeper&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Catallus 67 -&lt;/span&gt; a dialogue between the poet and door - uses the paraclausithyron form as a jumping off point, as the door gossips about the people of the house&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Horace &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Odes&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt; 3.10&lt;/span&gt; - address to the mistress.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Horace &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Odes&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt; 3.26 -&lt;/span&gt; threatening the mistress with the fact she is getting old, and one day no one will wait outside her door any more. Particularly bitchy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Tibullus 1.2&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"&gt; - possibly the whole thing takes place in an inebriated dream. Though set off by addresses to the closed door, it also contains some great digressions - including a description of a witch. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);"&gt;Propertius 1.16 - &lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"&gt;from the perspective of the door. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;I'm not so familiar with Greek poetry - can you offer any examples for the list?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;Any examples of modern songs on the same theme? I can only think of Let Love In by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;The Door&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;ianua, ae&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;(f) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;front door, entrance&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;posticum (nt) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;back door&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;fores (fpl) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;double doors&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;postis, is (m) &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;- doorpost - plural often means "door"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;limen, inis (n) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;crosspiece, threshold, border, house&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;lignum, i (n) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;gathered wood, wooden things, here i.e. door&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;robur, oris (n)&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; - oak wood, a structure made of wood&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Catena, ae (f) &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;- chain, fetter, shackle, constraint&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cardo, inis (m) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;hinge, pivot, socket&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Tigillum, i (n) -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; little beam of wood, lintel&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;claustra, orum (n) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;a lock bar, bolt&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;sera, ae (f) -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; a bar, cross bolt, lock&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;The Cast&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;ianitor, oris (m) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;doorkeeper&lt;/span&gt;, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;porter&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;custos, odis (m and f) -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; guard, watcher, preserver, defender, jailer&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;custodia, ae (f)&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; - a watch, guard, protection&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;exclusus amator&lt;/span&gt; typically turns up drunk, singing and wearing garlands. Some useful words:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;fax, facis (f) -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; torch, firebrand, light&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;corona, ae (f) -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; garland, wreath&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;vinum (nt) &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;- wine&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;merum (nt) &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;- undiluted wine&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;serta, orum (n)&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; - garland, wreath&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And of course:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;coniunx, iugis (m) &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;- spouse&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;vir, virorum/virum (m) &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;- human male, but here means husband/master&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Inclement Weather&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I will be doing a full post on Roman weather at some other time. Look out for frost, gales and the threatening approach of dawn.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;nox, is (f) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;night&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;umbra, ae (f) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;shadow&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tenebrae, arum (f) -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; darkness&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;sidus, eris (n) - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;star&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Some good adjectives&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;pervigil, is - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ever watchful&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;saevus&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; - fierce, cruel, savage&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;apertus - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;open &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;semiapertus, semiadapertus - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;half open&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;fultus -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; from fulcio - to prop up, support, prop up&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;rigidus -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; stiff, hard, inflexible&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;rigens - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;stiff, inflexible, unbending&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Durus - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;hard, unyielding, harsh, impenetrable&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Robustus - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;oak wood, made of oak&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Aesculeus -&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; of the oak&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Some good verbs&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;tundo, tutudi, tunsus - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;beat, strike, thump&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;rigeo, ere- &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;be stiff, freeze, stand solid&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;claudo, si, sus, ere - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;to shut, close, shut up&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;oppono, posui, positus -&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;set against, oppose, i.e. closed&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;aperire, patefacere - &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;open&lt;/span&gt; (note: don't expect this to happen in a paraclausithyron...)&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-2627387818658468849?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/2627387818658468849/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/12/paraklausithyron.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/2627387818658468849'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/2627387818658468849'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/12/paraklausithyron.html' title='Paraklausithyron'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-3149236213833284234</id><published>2009-11-25T08:31:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:43:31.495-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Translating into daft things into Latin'/><title type='text'>Silly project</title><content type='html'>My Latin - I'm embarassed at it, how rusty it's gotten. To brush up, I've started translating on the fly. My aim: develop a party trick whereby I can render song and movie titles into Latin.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I've started with the challenge of Doctor Who episode titles, and I'll be typing them up here season by season. The rules? Only to look at the dictionary if I really, really have to.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My first pass is in red, followed up by the correct translation if necessary and then a slightly more artistic rendering. As always, I welcome comments and criticisms. At the bottom: everything I needed to look up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;GAP YEAR&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Waters of Mars -&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;strike&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;Aquae Martium &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strike&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;  Aquae Martiales&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;I really like the implied double meaning here - Martialis is literally "of Mars" the planet, but also the God - as in, violent waters.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Planet of the Dead - &lt;/span&gt;&lt;strike&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;Terra Mortis &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strike&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt; Tellus Manium&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Oh, ugly ugly! The word Planet caused me some trouble - "&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;stella errans&lt;/span&gt;" is the best my dictionary could do, and I'm sure not whipping that out every time DW uses the word. In any case, the different planets of Doctor Who may as well be different lands. That gives me a choice between &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;tellus, orbis terrarum, terra, solum &lt;/span&gt;and &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;humus; mundus, regio, fines, patria&lt;/span&gt;. In this context, I just like &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;tellus&lt;/span&gt;. I knew &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;mortis &lt;/span&gt;sucked at the time - but one of the problems with DW titles is they're chosen for their cool soundingness. &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Planet of the Dead &lt;/span&gt;what? I'd better do Planet of the Dead People, because I'll need "Tellus Mortuus" for when I get to Hartnell.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In a way, the research for this title is going to keep me going for ages. Every other DW episode contains either Planets or Death, so it should be a cinch from now on. If only I can work out whether the Planet of Fire should be the same type of planet as the Dead Planet, the Tenth Planet, the Planet of the Ood e.t.c.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;The Next Doctor - &lt;/span&gt;&lt;strike&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"&gt;Proximus Doctor&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/strike&gt; - &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Insequens Doctor&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;See, I was so proud of getting &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;proximus&lt;/span&gt;, but the dictionary seemed to think &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;insequens&lt;/span&gt; was better: next in time, instead of the implied next in place &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;proximus&lt;/span&gt; has. I kept &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;doctor&lt;/span&gt; however: &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;medicus&lt;/span&gt; is a medical term, while &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;doctor&lt;/span&gt; carries the correct overtones of teaching.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;New words&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Martius - "of Mars"&lt;br /&gt;Insequens - adj - next, chronologically&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-3149236213833284234?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/3149236213833284234/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/11/silly-project.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/3149236213833284234'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/3149236213833284234'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/11/silly-project.html' title='Silly project'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-1970090941146210242</id><published>2009-02-24T04:27:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:43:50.322-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Silmarillion project'/><title type='text'>Passage 4 - Valaquenta 1</title><content type='html'>So I promised I wasn't going to start Page 1, Chapter 1, Creation of the Universe - and I'm not. I'm starting on the Valaquenta, which is the second description of it. Wholly different.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I'm using the book of Genesis in Latin Vulgate, translated by Jerome, and used by the Catholic Church since 382 CE as a touchpoint.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Silmarillion:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the beginning Eru, the One, who in the Elvish tongue is named Illuvitar, made the Ainur of his thought, and they made a great Music before him. In this Music the World was begun, for Illuvitar made visible the song of the Ainur and they beheld it as a light in the darkness. And many among them became enamoured of its beauty, and of its history which they saw beginning and unfolding as in a vision. Therefore Illuvittar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the Secret Fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World - and it was called Ea&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Pauses for breath. Tricky passage because the subject keeps changing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;English:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the beginning Eru, the One, (who in the language of the elves is named Illuvitar), [AHA] having made the Ainur out of his thought, &lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"&gt;made visible&lt;/span&gt; the Great Music which they sang before him, in which the world was begun - because, [AHA]beholding it as light in darkness, Many among them of it's beauty and histpru (which they saw beginning and unfolding as in a vision) became so enamoured,[result] that Illuvitar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and sent the Secret Fire, named Ea, was sent to[purpose] burn at the heart of the World.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Latin:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In principio Eru, qui in linguam Quendorum Illuvitar nominantur, Sanctos suae animae fecit; et ei ingens Carmen apud eum fecerunt. In hoc Carmenis Orbis inceptus est, quia Illuvitar Carmen Sanctorum patefecitque ei velut lux in tenebris intuitus sunt. &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;Multi &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"&gt;eorum &lt;/span&gt;formam eiusque historiam deamaverunt &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;quam&lt;/span&gt; ortamque ??????? velut imagem viderunt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Pass 2:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Since my first attempt, my Latin teacher has provided me with a host of stuff on translation, and I've attempted to be a little more strict in my translation, particularly in terms of making the clauses fit together. I've managed to cut it down to two sentences, tho I'm sure an expert could go further.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In the beginning Eru, the One, (who in the language of the elves is named Illuvitar), [AHA] having made the Ainur out of his thought, made visible the Great Music which they sang before him. Many among them, seeing it as light amidst the darkness) of it's beauty and histpru (which they saw beginning and unfolding as in a vision) became so enamoured,[result] that Illuvitar (having given to their vision Being) set it amid the Void, and sent the Secret Fire, named Ea, to[purpose] burn at the heart of the World.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Pass 2:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Eru in principio qui Quendis nomine Illuvitar, Sanctis factis suae animae, ingens Carmen(nt object) quod fecerunt apud eum patefecit. Multi eorum intuiti velut lux in tenebris formam eiusque historiam quam ortamque ??????? velut imagem viderunt, tot deamaverunt ut Illuvitar, &lt;/p&gt;??? = "and unfolding", need to find something.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Names:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;"Quendus, Quendorum" - an elf&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I'm pretending "Quendi", the regular plural word for elves, is a second declension noun, as in anni, pueri, servi et al, and invented the word "quendus" as the natural singular nominative for an elf. The Romans don't really have an equivalent concept - my dictionary gives elf as "deus" - god, and as far as my myth lore goes, all Roman nymphs, sylphs and mystical beings are regarded as related to the divine. That doesn't quite gel with Tolkien's mythology. This could cause havoc later on, as I may ultimately have to work out whether he means the Noldor, Teleri, Sindar, Avari, Calaquendi e.t.c. every time he uses the word "elves". But for now, it looks like good Latin. Elf is a significantly important word that I will have to use a lot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;Eru&lt;/u&gt; - not a word used terribly often in the Silmarillion, so probably won't need to worry. If I do, pretending it's 4th Declension like genu seems best.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;Illuvitar&lt;/u&gt; - in absence of a better plan, I will be treating this like the Greek noun "aer", because it is effectively a word translated into Latin.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;Ainu, Ainur&lt;/u&gt; - I could treat Ainu like genu, but in this case it seems best to render it as the literal meaning "Sanctus, Sancti", or Holy Ones. An alternative might be to refer to them as Angeli, but I'm not sure that angel isn't a too specific word. Without doing proper research into whether Tolkien envisaged the Ainur as minor gods, angels or something else entirely, it's not something I want to be specific about.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Notes:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"In principio" was pinched directly from St Jerome. Previously, I'd used "primo" (too workmanlike?) and "In initium". I'm still fond of the latter.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"the one" is a translation of Eru, so I omitted it, basically because Eru Unus just seemed off. This is a &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;decision I might change on&lt;/span&gt; though.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"&gt;I am seriously unhappy with "multi eorum",&lt;/span&gt; because even though it seems fine - many + partative genitive - it looks like pidgin latin. This may be because multi is an adjective, and I'm using it as a noun.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Things I've learnt:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;deamare - be enamoured of&lt;br /&gt;intueor, eri, itus - look at, contemplate, admire&lt;br /&gt;patefacio, facere, feci, factum - open up, disclose&lt;br /&gt;incipio, ere, epi, eptum - to begin&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-1970090941146210242?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/1970090941146210242/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/passage-4-valaquenta-1.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/1970090941146210242'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/1970090941146210242'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/passage-4-valaquenta-1.html' title='Passage 4 - Valaquenta 1'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-4928145186874500049</id><published>2009-02-24T04:19:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:44:09.489-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Silmarillion project'/><title type='text'>Dictionary of Names</title><content type='html'>I have decided, whenever possible, and in the absence of any better ideas, to retain Tolkien's original names and treat them as Latin nouns. Much in the way the Romans pinched Greek nouns.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;I will be much obliged to anyone with authority on this topic giving me some direction&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-4928145186874500049?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/4928145186874500049/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/dictionary-of-names.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/4928145186874500049'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/4928145186874500049'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/dictionary-of-names.html' title='Dictionary of Names'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-8568829961003189651</id><published>2009-02-24T04:04:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:44:24.064-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Silmarillion project'/><title type='text'>Passage 3 - oculis moris?!</title><content type='html'>I picked this passage deliberately, not just because it's a gorgeous bit of writing, but because the clauses appear to be a right bitch. There's gonna be subordinates and subjunctives all over the shop. Nothing like a challenge, eh...It's also direct speech, and doesn't have too many names, and is shorter than Hurin.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Silmarillion&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here forever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and from me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"&lt;br /&gt;-Huor to Turgon at the Battle of Unnumbered Tears&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;English&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;No1 = conditional clause (basic, I think)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yet IF it continues to stand for a little while, THEN the hope of Elves and Men shall come out of your house.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lord, I speak to you with the eyes of death &lt;em&gt;(a slight change in meaning, which means I don't have to use reported speech for the next bit. I think. Also, I'm not sure how far "I say this to you: reported" is used in Latin)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;No . 2 = concessive clause (using quamquam because again, I don't want to cope with the subjunctive just yet)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;THOUGH we are about to part here forever, and I am not going to look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Farewell -&lt;em&gt; the easy bit&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Latin&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"attamen si paulisper manet, spes &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;OF ELVES&lt;/span&gt;que hominum ex tuo domo veniet. Domine, ad te providentia &lt;span style="color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"&gt;moriturorum&lt;/span&gt; dico - quamquam semper divellebimusque non iterum ad tuos muros candidos spectabo, stella nova nobis oriabitur. Vale"&lt;br /&gt;Huor Turgontem inter Innumeras Lacrimas&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;moriturorum - nasty word, check this is correct.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Notes&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; I mean "domus" in the sense of family - apparently, the Romans use house with the same double meaning as we do.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Playing with the clauses turned out to be pretty easy, compared with"Eyes of death", a tricky Tolkien thing - it's the prophecy given those soon to die. I'm not sure my rather too literal translation works in Latin - did the Romans have this concept?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Domine, ad te morituris oculis dico&lt;br /&gt;"Lord, I speak to you with eyes about to die" - literal, but weird in Latin&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Domine, ad te moriturus dico&lt;br /&gt;"Lord, I speak to you about to die" - better sense, but loses the foresight.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Domine, ad te id quod erit moriturus dico&lt;br /&gt;"Lord, about to die I say to you what will be" - now this is more like it, but I'm not confident of my use of "id quod erit"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Domine, ad te providentia mortis dico&lt;br /&gt;"Lord, I speak with the foresight of death" - not sure about mortis&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Domine, ad te providentia moriturorum dico&lt;br /&gt;"Lord, I speak with the foresight of those about to die" - this is genuinely what I want to say, I think. It seems most "latin-y", though "moriturorum" is an ugly word I must have got wrong.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Questions&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"From you and me a new star shall arise". Should this be future - something he knows will happen - or is it optative subjunctive, something he hopes for?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I've used a direct translation of lord - "domine", but did the Romans use the word Lord in the same way as Huor here means it? As an address to someone of higher rank? It has such a religious connotation for me, it seems somehow wrong.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"moriuturorum" and "oriabitur" both sound wrong to me. So what's the correct forms?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;What have I learnt?&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Paulisper - for a little while&lt;br /&gt;Divello, ellere, elli - sepa$rate&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are three sorts of conditionals:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Basic - when the consequence will definitely follow the condition (Both parts indicative)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Foggy - where the consequence might or might not follow the condition (Primary subjunctives (present or perfect) in both parts)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Contrary to fact - where the condition is not fufilled (If I had known, I would have come myself) (Historic subjunctives (imperfect or pluperfect) in both parts)&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-8568829961003189651?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/8568829961003189651/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/passage-3-oculis-moris.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/8568829961003189651'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/8568829961003189651'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/passage-3-oculis-moris.html' title='Passage 3 - oculis moris?!'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-7615071178028234405</id><published>2009-02-24T03:57:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:45:02.533-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Silmarillion project'/><title type='text'>Passage 2 - day shall come again!</title><content type='html'>This is my favourite passage from the entire book, and it's a mighty piece of writing indeed. Everything sounds better in Latin - even my Latin - and this is just great. I've been toying with a translation for years, but there's a lot of it and I have a low attention span. Expect plenty of mistakes here.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Silmarillion:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried: 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive, by the command of Morgoth, for the Orcs grappled him with their hands, which clung to him still though he hewed off their arms; and ever their numbers were renewed, until at last he fell buried beneath them. Then binding him, they dragged him to Angband with mockery.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Oh yeah...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;English:&lt;/strong&gt; Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he threw away his shield, and wielded an axe with two hands, and it is sung that (&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;REPORTED SPEECH!&lt;/span&gt;) the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it was withered,and each time that he slew Húrin cried: 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' He uttered that cry Seventy times; but they took him at last alive, by the command of Morgoth, because so many Orcs grappled him with their hands (which clung to him though he chopped off their arms),and ever their numbers were renewed, that at last he fell buried beneath them. Then they dragged him to Angbad with mockery.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Latin&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Postremo stetit solus Hurin. Tum scutum iacuit securimque duobus manibus vibravit et dicitur securis in cruore nigero praesidii beluae &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;OF GOTHMOG&lt;/span&gt; fumavisse donec tostus esse et &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;EACH TIME&lt;/span&gt; interfecisse eum exclamavisse "Aure entuluva! Dies veniat!" Septuagiens conclamavit; at denique ab imperio &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;MORGOTH&lt;/span&gt; adhuc viventem capiverunt, quia tot &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;ORCS&lt;/span&gt;, eum manibus adhaeresibus etsi membra eorum cecidit luctabantur ut sub eis denique cadeat. Tum ludubrio vinctum ad &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;ANGBAND&lt;/span&gt; traxit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Notes: &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You'll see I've tried some of the ole word painting with the first line. Seems punchy to me. After that, I was far too busy worrying about clauses to think about it.  I've highlighted all the names and nouns I need to find a translation for - no point in muddling through for now, because if I'm gonna do the lot (she said) these are all words which I will need a lot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"wield" is a particularly useless Tolkien word, which was hard to find an adequate translation for. Also, I don't think the Romans used axes in warfare, hence a rather bizzare use of "securis" which appears to be more of an agricultural implement. &lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;There is probably an author I can look up, who describes fighting enemies with axes, to see what he says.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I did briefly have a meaning dilemma. Was it sung that both the axe smoked and every time he cried, or was it just the axe smoking? I decided to put "day shall come again" into reported speech, as strictly no one was there to see any of this.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"at denique viventem capiverunt" - does this need an "eum" as well? One of the things which always catches me out when translating from Latin is the sneaky fact that participles are used in place of people, so I see no reason why I shouldn't try too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Questions:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How do you wield something with two hands in latin? Is it just manibus duobus, or is there a special phrase?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Is there a good idiom for "every time"?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Should the entire second half of the passage be in reported speech? I gave up on it, demoralised by my dodgy latin. But if that is strictly what I should be doing, then I'm happy to give it a go. After all, no one was here to see this.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;What I've learnt:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Scutum - nt - shield&lt;br /&gt;Securis - f - axe&lt;br /&gt;Vibro, are, avi, atum - wave, brandish&lt;br /&gt;Cano, ere, cecini - sing of&lt;br /&gt;Torreo, ere, ui, tostum - wither, scorch (I wonder whether our word "toasted" comes from the passive infinitive here, "tostum" - to have been scorched?)&lt;br /&gt;Fumo, are - to smoke&lt;br /&gt;Cruor, m - blood (sounded better than sanguinis, not sure why)&lt;br /&gt;Ater, niger and sordidus - different shades of black&lt;br /&gt;Praesidium, -i - guard&lt;br /&gt;Custodia, f, - guard&lt;br /&gt;Luctor, ari - to grapple&lt;br /&gt;Adhaerere - cling&lt;br /&gt;Vincio, cire, xi, ctum&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The optative subjunctive expresses wishes, often with utinam (negative ne)&lt;br /&gt;Present and perfect are used for a wish for the future&lt;br /&gt;Imperfect are used for a wish that something were so now&lt;br /&gt;And the pluperfect a wish that somehting had been so in the past.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In indirect statement: Present infinitive used in place of present verbs, future for future, perfect for anything in the past. If the word introducing indirect speech is passive (though not deponant), the subject stays in the nominative - which is why I've got securis, not securim after "dicitur"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In addition, I found a nasty set of verbs:&lt;br /&gt;Iaceo, ere, ui - to lie&lt;br /&gt;Iacio, ere, ieci, iactum - to throw&lt;br /&gt;Iacto, are, avi, atum - to toss about&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-7615071178028234405?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/7615071178028234405/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/passage-2-day-shall-come-again.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/7615071178028234405'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/7615071178028234405'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/passage-2-day-shall-come-again.html' title='Passage 2 - day shall come again!'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-5895288138905871199</id><published>2009-02-24T03:53:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:45:31.390-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Silmarillion project'/><title type='text'>Passage 1 - Hail Earendil!</title><content type='html'>I don't have my copy of the Silmarillion with me, so I'm going to be working with random passages I've dug up on the internet. Plus, isolated chunks are less intimidating than starting chapter one, page one, verse one: Creation of the Universe, like I did first time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Silmarillion:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;"Hail Eärendil, of mariners most renowned, the looked for that cometh at unawares, the longed for that cometh beyond hope! Hail Eärendil, bearer of the light before the Sun and Moon! Splendour of the Children of Earth, star in the darkness, jewel in the sunset, radiant in the morning!" -Eönwë to Eärendil upon his arrival in Valinor&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Or, to put it in plain English:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;em&gt;The hardest part of Latin translation is actually working out what the author is trying to say. It's no use just translating the words, you've got to translate the meaning. I make it something like this:&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hail Earendil, most renowned of mariners, who comes unawares&lt;br /&gt;Having been looked for, who comes beyond hope&lt;br /&gt;Having been longed for.&lt;br /&gt;Hail Earendil,&lt;br /&gt;Bearer of the light before the Sun adn moon,&lt;br /&gt;Splendor of the Childen of earth,&lt;br /&gt;Star in the darkness,&lt;br /&gt;Jewel in the sunset,&lt;br /&gt;Raidiant in the morning&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Latin:&lt;/strong&gt; Ave Earendil, praeclarissimus nautarum, qui quaestus inopinato cupitus desperatus spes venit! Ave Earendil, baiulus lucis ante solemque lunam, splendour liberorum terrestris, stella in tenebris, gemma in solis occasis, splendidus mane.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;Edit: if you check the comments, you'll see someone has pointed out a major error in my latin - I've forgotten to put Earendil in the vocative - all the description which comes after is in the nominative instead. I'm also interested that their suggested translation repeats the "qui", which is something I'd wondered about myself, seeing as skipping it would be natural in English - but you never know with foreign idioms. And finally, noticing that spes is female, not male, and that it should be "desperata" not "desperatus", and the whole thing should be in the ablative anyway. Ah well. That's what this is about: learning more Latin. I therefore offer a revised translation:&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ave Earendil, praeclarissime nautarum, qui quaeste inopinato qui cupite spe desperata venit. Ave Earendil, baiule lucis ante solemque lunam, splendour liberorum terrestris, stella in tenebris, gemma in solis occasis, splendide mane.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Does that sound better?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Notes:&lt;/strong&gt; This took a good hour at least, maybe longer. But I'm satisfied with the result. I do have my doubts about the qui clause, however - specifically my use of participles. "Earendil" is just Earendil for now. According to wikipedia, the best source I could find on the matter, latinisation of names can either be a sheer treating the foreign name as latin, or a translation of its meaning. It strikes me it's best to use one rule for the whole book, but until I pick one I'm going with leaving names as they are. Incidentally, Ear-endil is "Sea lover", so for a latin version I'd have to crush amans maris into a sensible name.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;What I've learnt: &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Tenebrae - fpl - "darkness"&lt;br /&gt;Gemma - f - jewel&lt;br /&gt;Inopinato - adverb - unawares, unexpected&lt;br /&gt;Solis occasus - m - sunset&lt;br /&gt;Solis ortus - m -sunrise&lt;br /&gt;Baiulus - m - bearer&lt;br /&gt;Spes - f - hope&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All perfect participles are passive, except (ironically, irritatingly), deponants which are active second declension vocatives take -e!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;All comments, criticisms and corrections are welcomed&lt;/u&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-5895288138905871199?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/5895288138905871199/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/passage-1-hail-earendil.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/5895288138905871199'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/5895288138905871199'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/passage-1-hail-earendil.html' title='Passage 1 - Hail Earendil!'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1281965091927842077.post-8769478761155635747</id><published>2009-02-24T03:30:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2010-03-20T07:46:07.189-07:00</updated><category scheme='http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#' term='Silmarillion project'/><title type='text'>Welcome, and why am I doing it?</title><content type='html'>Over the past few years, I've been trying to translate the Silmarillion into Latin. I'm starting from scratch, again, and putting the progress on the internet as I go.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All posts will include a discussion of how I got there, &lt;strong&gt;comments and criticism are strongly requested and much appreciated.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For those of you still asking "why...",&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1) Intellectual challenge. Why shouldn't one of the world's loveliest books be put into one of the world's loveliest languages?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;a) Why the &lt;em&gt;Silmarillion&lt;/em&gt;, not &lt;em&gt;Lord of the Rings&lt;/em&gt;? Because it's a lot shorter, and there are less colloquialisms which Latin might not cover.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;b) Why Latin, not Quenya? Quenya was the original plan, but there are nowhere near enough words. You'd have to cut or seriously compromise huge chunks of it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2) pride. A quick browse of the web shows I'm still the only person attempting this.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3) brush up my Latin. I'm at university, and I won't pretend that reading my translation will be a pleasant experience for either Latin experts or Romans. I've already been confronted by the question "are you going to use Classical or Ciceronian Latin?", to which I could only confess I had no idea there was a difference. It's a learning exercise, not likely to approach publication.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But I invite you also to come and learn with me.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Especially if you could provide me of a copy of this article... :)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/tolkien_studies/v003/3.1doughan.html"&gt;http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/tolkien_studies/v003/3.1doughan.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1281965091927842077-8769478761155635747?l=latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/feeds/8769478761155635747/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/httpmuse.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/8769478761155635747'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1281965091927842077/posts/default/8769478761155635747'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://latinsilmarillion.blogspot.com/2009/02/httpmuse.html' title='Welcome, and why am I doing it?'/><author><name>Unmutual</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='32' height='32' src='http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lE8ckZANG7w/Sv2fu4_GSdI/AAAAAAAAAZo/ASkMzq225Ug/4yU54yPp3o454uql9VLdjhH3o1_500.jpg'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry></feed>
